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Windows NT4 Install on USB Keyboard
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qqqqqq



Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:00 pm    Post subject: Windows NT4 Install on USB Keyboard Reply with quote

I am planning on installing Windows NT4 to a new system without ps2 port. There are third party drivers that can be installed to existing Windows NT4 system to support usb devices. However, the system I have is a new logicboard (w/o PS2 port) and an empty hard disk drive. Is there any solutions to how to enable usb keyboard during the install of NT4? Or maybe perhaps there is a workaround? Thanks in advance.


JJ
________
digital scales


Last edited by qqqqqq on Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Steve



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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Location: Bangalore, India

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will probably work if you enable USB Legacy Support in the BIOS.
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JonS



Joined: 31 May 2010
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Location: Morecambe

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not so optimistic as Steve.... I've a feeling that as soon as the machine loads into the Windows part of setup you'll lose the bios-level windows and keyboard support
Will be interesting to see what happens


Remember that NT4 setup has to be started from a set of floppies. Somehow you would need to get the USB drivers onto that disk set. You may also need to slipstream them into the CD as well. At the moment I'm not sure how to do that - unless nLite can fix it
Another problem of course - does the new motherboard have a floppy drive connector? If not you're going to have to make your own bespoke bootable CD


PS - just thinking about this a bit more, its quite likely that NT4 wont be able to handle the chipset / memory / CPU of a modern motherboard. have you checked for any compatibility issues with the board manufacturers?
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JonS



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I think I have the outlines of how to do it, but the detail would need a lot of fettling

First boot with a Win98 or WinME CD and boot to DOS mode with CD support
Take out the 9X CD and insert the NT4 disk
Take a previously made floppy which contained the correct unattend,txt answer file (for an unattended setup) PLUS the extracted USB driver .inf files in the path $oem$\Oemfiles\Textmode

You'd then need to move to the NT4 disk, navigate to the I386 folder and run
winnt.exe along with the /u and /s switches pointing to the unattend.txt file

Theres more to it than this - I've only described the outline. First you have to create the unattend.txt file. And then theres the problem of the drivers: I've just looked at a couple of examples and all are designed to be run from within windows. None allow the extraction of the required .dll and .inf files. This wouldn't be an easy thing to do

Let's hope Steve is right
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qqqqqq



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the ideas!

Just tried the install. The NT4 CD does boot. But the install eventually reboots the system while booting and loading the pre-loading process.

Even Windows 2000 server is having issue too. It boots fine just like the NT4, but eventually a blue screen error with HAL.DLL before the pre-loading process ends.

Any ideas why the setup have problems with the HAL.DLL file? The message also said about no supported HDD. Maybe because the HD is SATA?

The server is a Dell Power Edge T310 and there is no ATA configuration
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Steve



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This error is often associated with corrupt/failed hard drives. You are probably right, in that it cannot see the SATA drive and this is causing the error.

To be honest you are probably trying the impossible here - installing an obsolete OS on a modern computer. Windows 2000 is no longer supported by Microsoft, never mind NT. You would be better off looking at purchasing Windows Server 2008, or using a free Linux distribution if this will meet your requirements.
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JonS



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

two issues here
1) the "no hard drives" errror is because neither NT4 or Win2K natively support SATA drives. You have to install the drivers manually during startup using the floppy drive / F6 routine. It should be possible to do this in 2K, I'm not so sure you'll find SATA drivers for NT4 though
Note you have to use a "real" floppy. It won't work with a USB one
2) The HAL problem simply implies that the motherboard is too new to work with the software. Your Windows version isn't mature enough to cope with the new features (new memory architecture, power systems, CPU type, PCi-express bus) that comes with the new board

Solution? As Steve says, get a newer operating system. If you don't want to pay for a new windows server, think about one of the Linux distributions

edit
On checking, this machine has no floppy drive, so (1) is out - unless the drivers are slipstreamed onto the setup CD


Last edited by JonS on Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:38 pm; edited 3 times in total
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JonS



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the spec for that machine is here
http://i.dell.com/sites/content/shared-content/data-sheets/en/Documents/T310-Spec-Sheet.pdf
checking the hardware indicates you've not a chance of getting NT4 or 2K working on that. Dell list the following as compatible

Microsoft® Windows® Small Business Server 2008
Microsoft® Windows® Essential Business Server 2008
Microsoft® Windows Server® 2008 SP2, x86/x64 (x64 includes Hyper-V™)
Microsoft® Windows Server® 2008 R2, x64 (includes Hyper-V™ v2)
Microsoft® Windows® HPC Server 2008
Novell® SUSE® Linux® Enterprise Server
Red Hat® Enterprise Linux®

You could almost certainly get another Linux or BSD distro to work as well, but thats probably about your limit of choice


Silly question: this would have come preinstalled with one of these operating systems. What was the reason you wanted to install NT4 on it? If it was for reasons of compatibility with old software, then the way forward would be to run NT4 virtualised on top of the host operating system
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qqqqqq



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks again for all the input.

Yes. It is because there is an old database engine application that was created for NT4 or 2000. It would take the programmer over a year to recode
it. The database was customized about 12 years ago.

Just a thought. Could a universal SATA driver solve the HAL error? A few lines under the HAL error indicated about no HDD. The HDD is new so it is not bad or corrupted.

Will the HAL problem go away if I SlipStream SP4 to the install cd?
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JonS



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No and No

the way ahead is to run a virtual PC and run a copy of NT4 or Win2K within that. I'm not the world's best expert on this so hopefully someone else will chime in here. However the way forward depends on whether you need to run this database on a server, or just locally on one machine

Take a look at
Virtualbox http://www.virtualbox.org/

Microsoft do a couple of free Virtual PC products, but the most recent ones don't appear to support Win2K or NT. The newest which does is this
https://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=6d58729d-dfa8-40bf-afaf-20bcb7f01cd1
This would only be relevant if you want to run the program locally on one machine

If you need to run it as a server, then several routes are open, but all are commercial products

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualserver/default
http://www.vmware.com/
If you need to go down the route of a virtual server, really its time to hire in help. Its not a subject for the untutored


Last edited by JonS on Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JonS



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

postscript

reading the documentation it looks like you should be able to run Win2K as a server in a VirtualBox virtual machine
Thats probably going to be the cheapest and easiest option

I've found instructions on how to do it here
http://www.brighthub.com/computing/windows-platform/articles/47077.aspx

Wiki article which gives background - including details of the hardware it emulates - here https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/VirtualBox
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JonS



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just another thought - prompted by some of my colleagues on another forum

If that database is that important, you need to get it recompiled urgently to another platform. Win2K is twelve years or so old. Support for it stopped around six years ago. It can only get older and more vulnerable
While you may be able to get it up and running short-term as a stop gap on a virtual machine, relying on a vintage software system as part of your ongoing business plan is a one-way trip to failure. In another five years you probably won't be able to find any computer techs who know anything about Win2K or NT4.
Get it recompiled NOW, preferably on an open-source structure like postgreSQL or openSQL, and port it to Linux or BSD - not Windows
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